[This interview is part of the Varieties of Waking Up series]

Intro

I found Russ when I ran into his youtube video on Perennial Philosophy. The video is one of my favorites – only three minutes long but masterfully potent. I enjoyed it so much I reached out and started a conversation. Russ kindly took the time to answer my interview questions.

Bio

Russ is a content creator whose aim is to spread ideas of nondualism. He is from the UK and is currently living in the US.

When Did “Waking Up” Start for You?

I got into personal development in my mid 20s which was helpful in its own way, but ultimately this self-development journey led me down the path of waking up to my true nature. People may scoff at “The Book of Secrets” by Deepak Chopra, but it was the link that took me from the self-help genre to an assortment of deeper, more profound books and ideas. Deepak’s book led me to ‘The Book: The Taboo Against Knowing Who You Really Are’ by Alan Watts. I started to see the world and myself in a very different way – a nondual way – and that was when I started waking up. This journey continued to get deeper and deeper over the last 15 years or so – more on that later.

Did You Explore It Specifically, or Did It Catch You off Guard?

It did catch me off guard for the most part. I was searching for something, but I wasn’t sure what exactly I was searching for. From a young age I wanted to know what the meaning of life was and what this all meant. Although I was exposed to various religions growing up, I was never exposed to the really deep insights about who or what I really am (and it never occurred to me independently). I believe that the lack of exposure to these philosophical ideas is one of the main reasons people are not waking up. This is obviously changing within the information age – these insights are a lot more available and digestible than ever before. This is akin to the renaissance when the printing press first became available – there was an explosion of pamphlets with all kinds of new ideas. This was a huge leap for the collective consciousness of humanity, and we are currently in another one of these periods. 

Once I became aware of these ideas through authors like Alan Watts, a small lightbulb flickered. The idea that I am more than my stream of thoughts, along with ideas about non-duality, was the first real breakthrough. I’ve always thought that I was this independent “me” separate from the world around me (thanks to our modern materialist worldview) and here was this gentleman saying, no, you have been bamboozled all along! It was shocking but it also resonated with me deeply. I was still a bit skeptical at first, but I knew I was onto something. After reflecting on it for years, reading many more authors, having my own insights, it solidified in a deep way. The lightbulb got brighter, but this took several years.

What Is Your Experience With Meditation, Mindfulness, Contemplation of Related Philosophy, Journaling?

Meditation was necessary for me to quiet the monkey mind. It helped me see what the mind is (sort of like a recording of conditioned thoughts). Meditation showed me that there is much more beyond the thinking mind – there is a deep awareness that experiences the mind. Meditation helped to separate the two – awareness and mind. Realizing that there was something observing the mind was a very big shift for me. For decades I believed I was this stream of thoughts, this isolated ego in a body, but in fact, I am not my mind, I’m more like the observer of my mind. I am the pure awareness in which my mind chatters endlessly! Literally mind blowing. 

The teachings, books and direct experience went hand in hand, together, progressing slowly over time. Never one big breakthrough, just many smaller ones. 

I’ve experimented with a variety of mindfulness techniques. My absolute favorite variety is the body scan, specifically the vipassana body scan. Doing this gave me a similar realization to the mind-awareness separation. I realized that everything my body experiences boils down to sensations. If I close my eyes, my body is just a variety sensation. That’s all there is. These sensations give me the illusion of a real body. If we investigate those sensations, we see them for what they are – a kind of vibration feeling. The mind is the one that labels and associates it with pain or pleasure.  Furthermore, and more importantly, I realized on a deep level that I am the awareness that experiences the sensations of the body. 

All we ever experience are thoughts, sensations (body) and perceptions (outside of body) and these are not you. They are only what the real you, pure awareness, is experiencing. These experiences and realizations have been beyond words. 

A couple other things that have helped quiet the ego: 

The now – realizing that there is only the now and practicing being present helped tremendously. Understanding that the past and future are only experienced in the now was another leap in understanding. 

Observing the mind without judgement – seeing thoughts for what they were and not attaching to them. Just observing them like a leaf in the wind. 

Absolute acceptance of what is. I started off just trying to be content with whatever happened, and this eventually led to truly accepting what is, which led even deeper to not only accepting what is, but loving what is. Of course, I struggle sometimes but aim to love what is.

What Is Your Relationship with Science?

After I knew religion wasn’t for me in my teenage years, I turned to science to help me make sense of things. Astronomy and physical cosmology have certainly contributed to my understanding in an interesting way. The feelings of awe and wonder I got when I pondered the infiniteness of the universe unlocked something in me. I also think that the mysteries of the universe helped keep that feeling of awe and wonder alive in me for so many years (so it helped me not to give up on the search for truth). I don’t know if it was my western upbringing or sheer ignorance, but I really thought science could explain everything! I was an atheist for some time and very much locked into the materialist paradigm. But after some time, I realized that science is great at certain things (quantitative), but it has limits and cannot answer the deeper questions of life (what reality is, what experience is, the qualitative, etc.). It has aspects of truth, but it is not a well-rounded worldview. It is a very specific way to look at the world, this however, took me a long time to realize. But I see it as part of the journey – I learned a lot about science and astronomy which led me down all kinds of interesting roads like metaphysics, ontology, epistemology, logic, and philosophy of mind which really helped me create a better comprehensive understanding of things. 

I will add – I do think science is a very useful tool that will continue to help humanity in amazing ways. I just think it is a terrible idea to be locked into the materialist world view because of the separation it is creating. The separation has created an immense amount of suffering. But I also believe this is just a phase humanity must go through to get to the next level of understanding much like the previous advances in collective consciousness.

What Is Your Relationship With Religion?

I wasn’t very religious growing up but was exposed to Christianity. The stories and teachings didn’t resonate with me at all. While I did appreciate their value systems, I thought, who could believe these silly stories about Jesus, Moses, and others? He died for our sins? What are you people even talking about? I suppose I didn’t understand it at the time and for the record, I don’t think they are silly anymore (I respect all tolerant religions). I believe some stories are metaphors, some are myths, and some really did happen. I also believe that many of the teachings have grains of truth in them, but in my opinion, a lot of the teachings have been convoluted from their original teachings. The dogma, reach for power and authority, and misunderstandings of the original teachings have really done a number on the original message that these prophets (for lack of a better term) were trying to get across. I believe that most religions are speaking to an aspect of the truth, but because the truth is beyond words and language (we can only point), its just a piece of the puzzle (and a very fuzzy piece at that). 

[Below, Russ’s related video on The Perennial Philosophy]

If I resonate with any religion, it would be of the Eastern variety such as Hinduism, Buddhism (specifically Zen), and the like. The Hindu Vedas are quite good. These religions are not perfect, but they are much better at a unified oneness where Western religions see us as separate. Western religions reflect our culture – a culture of independence, while Eastern is more about the deeper connection between everything. 

Lastly, I am not trashing Christianity or Western religion. It is one way to wake up. Many religions teach the same things – be present in the now, acceptance of what is, love, prayer as a form of meditation, etc. – and these are all pathways to waking up (if you really devoted yourself to these practices).

What Thinkers or Books Contributed to Your Current Perspective?

Sri Ramana Maharshi – Who am I and Self Enquiry

Alan Watts – The Book – The Taboo Against Knowing Who You Are, and also, This is IT

Rupert Spira – Youtube channel and several great books

Douglas Harding – On Having No Head

Ram Dass has some interesting books and videos

Adyashanti 

James Swartz – How to Attain Enlightenment. No I am not “enlightened”, but this is a fantastic read. 

Eckhart Tolle – The Power of Now

Bernardo Kastrup

And tons of philosophy/nondualism channels on Youtube.

What Are Your Thoughts on the Potential of Psychedelics?

Psychedelics can be extremely beneficial to us as individuals and as a community. The use of psychedelics is one way we can break out of the mainstream physicalist paradigm we currently find ourselves in.

The current physicalist paradigm has led us to believe that we live in a physical world of self and other. The world and entire universe is made out of matter and the matter in my brain is what gives rise to consciousness. From the physicalist point of view, matter, which boils down to abstract mathematical quantities, is all there is. True reality is this abstract quantitative world. Somehow, these quantities give rise to your qualitative, everyday conscious experience. They give rise to your perceptions. How? Well, no one knows, but I digress. So, our modern view creates a dichotomy between you and the world. You, your consciousness, is an emergent property of this quantitative world and when you die, so does your consciousness. There is an external world out there and you (your consciousness) are not a part of it at all. You are just cooped up within your skull. This is the current mainstream physicalist paradigm and it creates the belief that we live in a physical world of self and other. This dualistic thinking, which has been perpetuated over the last several hundred years, creates a world devoid of meaning and purpose. It creates a selfish, us against them, mentality. It is not good for us as individuals or as a society.

With that said, I want to focus on perceptions a little more. Again, our understanding of perceptions is deeply tied up in this paradigm. Our brain is what gives rise to our perceptions and basically, they do reflect the real world to some degree – they are representations of the real quantitative world. So, physicalism says that there is something beyond our everyday perception, but it is quantitative in nature.

Physicalism got one thing right – there is certainly something beyond our everyday perceptions, but it is not abstract mathematical quantities. What is really beyond our perceptual experience and how can someone find out? The only way to understand what nature truly is for yourself, is through direct experience. There are many methods – deep contemplation, meditation, yoga, mindfulness, etc. These methods are fruitful and enough to get someone to see a slice of the truth, but many of us are so deeply indoctrinated into the physicalist worldview that we need something that will give us a truly profound experience to snap us out of it. In my opinion, breaking out of the current mainstream paradigm is one of the most challenging endeavors in life and psychedelics can certainly give someone that direct, undeniable, profound experience. Having an experience in which you realize that everything around you is alive and that you are not separate from the world, but a part of it, will crush the materialist spell. You will see the world in a completely new way. With that said, I would never recommend someone jump into psychedelics unless they have done a lot of prep work, understand the nondual perspective on an intellectual level, have the right set and setting, and all that good stuff.

Conscious experience is all we know and I personally believe that pure consciousness/awareness is all that exists. Everything else that we come up with within this experience is just an abstract mental mind game. We have gotten very good at understanding how nature behaves through science, but we still know very little about what nature actually is. We need new ways of exploring conscious experience and psychedelics are one of the most promising methods. I believe they will help us open and expand our understanding of reality quite a lot. It has the potential to create an entirely new worldview.

Imagine the implications if we all knew that we are one with all that is? Imagine if more people knew that they are not isolated beings in a world full of dead, quantitative matter? Imagine if we knew that when we die our consciousness does not die, but instead, rejoins the source from which it came? Imagine the impacts on individuals and our society? I am hopeful that we can get there as a species.

Has Anything Else Significantly Contributed to Your Understanding?

Everything has helped in its own way. Being open minded and willing to listen and reflect on any idea as silly as it may seem, reading a variety of authors/philosophers (from ancient Greece and Vedic to modern), trying various exercises even if it seems too simple (Douglas Harding exercises are a good example). Many other things, but the main idea is to let your guard down, suspend your worldview momentarily and be as curious as a kid. 

Do You Consider Your Insights “Stabilized”?

Nope. I still have a long way to go, but I am happy with my current understanding of things. And just to clarify, my current understanding in simple terms – I am the unchanging awareness in which everything (sensations, perceptions, and thoughts) is happening. 

The real me is conscious awareness. I am the unchanging awareness that experiences every sound that I hear, everything that I see, every experience that I encounter. I’ve never had a full-blown awakening. For me, it has been a gradual awakening to the truth – small glimpses of the truth over the last 15/20 years. I still have a long way to go. With that said, I am at peace with my current level of personal insight (and at peace with whatever happens in life). 

What Was (Or Is) the Most Disturbing or Disorienting Aspect of Your Insights?

The first insights were the most jolting.

As mentioned earlier, realizing that I am not separate from the world around me was profound. I don’t mean just physically (we are all made from the same stuff) or that everything is deeply interconnected. That’s useful early on in the journey of waking up. I am talking about the non-dual understanding of the world. That was very disorienting. It shook me up. 

Experiencing non-dual awareness (at least the small glimpses I have had) showed me directly that my whole worldview was completely wrong! I had been going through life thinking that I was in my head, that I was a separate self, that I was this stream of thoughts. The experience of nondual awareness showed me that all I experience in life are thoughts, sensations and perceptions. Furthermore, it showed me that I am not any of those thoughts, sensations, or perceptions. I am the thing (the space, the void, the pure awareness) that is experiencing everything. 

Along the same line – realizing there is no me (as in ego). It was jolting to my sense of self and exciting (once you get a taste of it via direct experience) because you realize that there is no self, but there is a Self which, of course, the implications of that realization are amazing. 

I went through some ups and downs because these insights meant that my worldview was totally shattered. I welcomed the new worldview but something within me (me ego’s sense of survival perhaps) fights against it. 

Do You Recall Any Realizations That Were Especially Profound?

Everything in the previous paragraph applies here as well. But another thing that was a bit surprising was realizing that everyone I meet is also me. 

How Is Your Daily Life Most Influenced by This Investigation?

We all have practical lives to live, but as often as possible I bring myself back to the present, back to awareness, and out of my head. I drop inner resistance and surrender to what is as best as I can. Not always easy though! I try to be kinder and more compassionate towards other people. I also try to share these ideas through my Youtube channel – I also want to spread the ideas of nondualism. I’m also much more of a minimalist now. I have really lost the desire to want shiny new things and my emotions are mostly baselined. My emotional desires have dwindled but this, for me, has been challenging as I want to keep some passion and excitement alive. I think it comes down to tapping into awareness as often as possible and living from that space – It is something I am still working on.

What Are Your Thoughts on Personal Fulfillment?

I am torn on the whole idea of personal fulfillment and goals. Do we actually have free will or are we just observing what is? I believe that there are no mistakes, so free will would really muck things up but on the other hand, the deterministic worldview is quite uncomfortable. I feel like I have the freedom to choose, but am I really doing it? If there is no separate self, then there is no one to have the free will in the first place.  So, who’s in control here? 

I do not think it is one or the other (free will or deterministic). I believe our human understanding of the world has framed it this way, but it is incorrect. It to be beyond human understanding (or at least beyond my understanding). Because of this, it is hard to talk about personal fulfillment. On a human level I do believe we are all on some journey to personal fulfillment and we are also on a journey as a species. It is obvious when you look at history that humanity is going through some kind of awakening journey. 

This conversation can get dicey and nihilistic if not careful, so while I am mostly my ego on a day to day basis, I try to do tap into awareness and do what I think is right. I try to live by my values (that have been influenced by experiences of nondualism) and that’s all I can really do at the end of the day. Otherwise, I am handcuffing myself. Hopefully that makes sense! 

What Are Your Thoughts on Meaning?

On meaning itself? Or the meaning of life? 

Meaning is a human construct, so in short, whatever is happening is beyond our ideas of meaning or purpose… 

Meaning of life?

I realize that I am contradicting myself with what I just said.. : )

I believe the meaning of life is to wake up : )   To wake up to our true nature (or get closer to it). I believe that is why people always feel unfulfilled – we are striving to get back to our natural state of pure awareness, pure love. Humans seek what they love and do most things in the name of love (love of self, love of family, love of country, etc.). The love of their family can lead them to kill someone.  A heinous act, but interestingly, this is actually done out of the love they have for their family. We are all seeking that missing piece, that deep love/awareness, in this limited version of ourselves. 

Is There Anything About Your Insights You Would Wish for Others to Notice on Their Own?

I want them to notice all of these insights on their own! And that is the only way it can happen. Knowledge can be gleamed from books and other people (we are talking to ourselves in a sense), but since true insights are beyond words and language, they must happen via your own direct experience. Ponder the teachings you learn, reflect on them, question them, and hopefully they will be assimilated into you at a deep level. I think those steps are necessary in order to slowly crush your old paradigm and allow the rise of a new one. Once I removed the old paradigm and replaced it with a new one, the direct insights came easier. 

Are You Unsettled With Anything in the World?

Another touchy one.. The suffering of others is obviously troubling, but who am I to say if it is good or bad? Yes, on a human level I want to help end the suffering of others. From a different perspective, maybe suffering is necessary for people to wake up. I certainly wouldn’t have gone down this road without the perceived suffering I went through. What I define as suffering is also just a concept. Truth is beyond words, ideas, and concepts, so anything I do to try and justify my behavior is really just coming from a limited human mind. Philosophical ideas aside, I do not know, I just trust my instinct, try to channel that deeper essence of being (outside of the mind), and do what I think is right and live by my values. That is all I can do.

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